Should white people be drumming and dancing?

[James]

This Article is discussing some thing that is apparently talked about in dressing rooms all over America?

I must be honest I was a little shocked to read some of the opinions in it and would be interested to know what you think?

I have created a poll hereand would be interested in seeing the feedback people have...

[Dugafola]

i voted yes in the poll.

people outside the US probably won't have any first hand experience with this. i have tried to explain it in depth to a few europeans that i met in guinea and they really couldn't believe it.

that article is an interesting read...i won't comment until i see the part 2 from the white person's perspective.

but from my own experience...I play often in Oakland which is the west coast hub of African diasporic dance here in the states. i have a great rapport with all the African artists there and they all know that i study/train and who my teachers are. they have no problems with me playing and rely on me to make the music "nice." i haven't had any precarious interactions with africans or african americans as a drummer, but i've seen some of my buddys get an earful from some african american women. my GF is a dancer and she says the vibe can be pretty thick in some of those dance classes. she's told me stories of dubious actions that she or someone she knew has been subject to. she has a great outlook though and doesn't let any of that shit keep her down. she'll still dance in the front line and rip solos at the end.

when the article talks about white people taking a few classes an then going off and teaching and making money...african american people do it too...as well as Africans themselves.

another interesting article

[Bingi_chile]

For me, this applies to all other ethnicities: Not simply Caucasians, but Latinos and Asians as well.

I happen to be an African-American who loves drumming. I can't speak for other people, but under respectful conditions, I don't mind having persons of non-African descent in a drum class or dance class. I just think it is important for non-Blacks to recognize the cultural genocide experienced by Africans in the Western Hemisphere, particularly in the USA: Our names, languages, religions, tribal governments and cultural value systems were systematically stolen and destroyed in a very short period of time. And while that period can never be re-lived, while those losses can never be re-imbursed, community drumming serves as one portal to our cultural and spiritual roots.

I have certainly met non-Blacks whom I respect because they clearly wielded proper reverence for drumming; they learned about the social context of the different songs, and they studied proper drumming techniques. But at the same time, I would also expect them to know the causal (not "casual") relationship that enslavement and miseducation had over several generations. If non-Black participants indeed wish to gain/retain the respect of the Black community, I would expect them to respect certain wishes of the community. For example, some time ago, once during a particular discussion, I pointed out to an individual the differences between "slave" and "enslaved Africans", between "slavery" and "period of enslavement". To some, these may seem like minute semantic differences, but to the community, they represent huge perceptual differences. This individual was arrogant enough to say that she had no interest in changing her lexicon, since she could not understand the logic, nor was it her concern to understand it. While this is only one example, but this refusal to acknowledge truth via an African perspective is the type of arrogance that doesn't belong in my community.

[bops]

It is extremely difficult to discuss race in America, for several reasons. At the root of America's race relations, particularly between blacks and whites, is the most tragic era in our history. Evidently, this history can cast an unfortunate shadow over something that is above all a positive, empowering and unifying social act - drumming and dancing. Another reason is that discussing race forces us to lump otherwise unique individuals into broad categories, which can be hurtful. For me, this was the case in reading the first installation of the article in question.

While it's easier for most people to turn a blind eye to the issue(s), or to just say, "let's forget it and move on," it is very important to discuss these questions, especially if we feel strongly about them. Thanks to James for posting the article, and to the authors of the article as well, for bringing up the issue. I can personally say that this is not the first time the above question has been posed, if in not so many words. More often it's a vibe that comes from some would-be participants or audience members, like the elephant in the room.

I’ll save my comments that pertain specifically to this article until it’s been completed. I will say that, if the second installment of this article is as seemingly biased as the first, I’m doubtful that this piece will help to repair any of the divisions that may exist in African dance communities throughout the US. Nonetheless, I think addressing the issue is a step in the right direction.

What do you all think?

[bubudi]

it's interesting the article makes a disclaimer that no opinion is taken, then on the fourth page comes out with:

The perception that community spirit and unity had been adversely impacted over the years is accurate. The increasing presence of whites does contribute to decline in spirit.

clearly the article is biased toward that view and they don't qualify their opinion at all. those that know the history of the development of west african music will remember that after the initial resurgence of culture that followed independence, there was a great decline in interest, particularly in the younger generations. as a result of the participation of non-africans in the dance/drum communities, masses of non-africans have been coming to study the music and dance. this has increased the pride that africans take in their culture and further developed the artforms. younger generations took notice. therefore the non-african participation in this music and dance has been instrumental to its survival.

binghi brought up a fair comment about respect - making an effort to understand the culture and history of africans in the motherland as well as in the diaspora. i think the majority of non-blacks in the drum/dance community try to be respectful. some of them may unintentionally say something insensitive from time to time, or may even still have some racist views that are part of their conditioning, but on the whole this group would tend to be far more sensitive and respectful to the black community than the general white population. we all need to examine our beliefs from time to time and resolve our issues. many black people likewise were raised with a lot of racist beliefs toward white people and other non-black groups. examining our beliefs, healing our pain, working through issues and learning from others is part of our development as human beings. occasionally you may run into someone who is unwilling to take on this task . i personally think those issues will hit them again and again until they learn the lessons they need to learn.

whenever an african talks about the culture, people (black and non-black) listen respectfully. can't this be extended to all members of the community? i think a lot of people in the community that have reached a certain level of competency start to consider themselves "professional performers". it's a shame but they don't think that anyone who is not a master or 'pro' level can teach them anything. i personally think we all bring different things into the dance/drum community. some of us have years of experience, others have lots of travel experience, some have studied the culture a lot, some have learned from a lot of teachers, some have learned malinke or susu, some have a good knowledge of the songs, others just 'have' the spirit. some people teach you the joy of sharing which is important to the music and dance. so when people assume what another person does or doesn't know, they will often underestimate that person, even based on their level of skill.

my advice is learn from as many sources as you can, acknowledge and respect each other and this artform and its many communities will multiply and become a source of joy and inspiration for everyone. If this were to happen, perhaps racism would cease to be an issue in these communities.

[e2c]

First off, I think it would be wise to wait for the next part of the article before drawing conclusions.

there are *so* many things involved here - racism is one, but only one. I am white, and have only been studying Guinea and Mali-style drumming for 1 year. I feel very fortunate to be learning in a situation where the drum/dance scene is very much mixed-race. (The majority of the dancers are African American, but there are white, Asian and Latino dancers; the situation with the drummers is similar.)

To me, one of the single most important things to do is to come to the music and dance with an attitude of respect and humility. If your heart and mind are open - in terms of learning from others who don't necessarily come from the same background as you (whether that is ethnic, national... whatever), there will be acceptance, though it might not come quickly (from some folks, at least).

As for the description of older generations here in the US feeling that African drum/dance culture is theirs - it makes complete sense to me. People here have been through very difficult times, and even though I am an "outsider," I can see some of the reasons for wanting to identify so closely with West African culture, as a new identity that confers self-respect, dignity, and an appreciation for "roots." It does follow, i think, that many of the older African Americans who have been involved in drum and dance would feel a proprietary interest.

it's important that we actually *talk* about these things, because there are ongoing, deep hurts in the black community (and far beyond) that need to be salved. And I honestly do believe that many of us in the US are extremely casual about other peoples and their cultures - to the point that many don't want to learn much (if anything) about traditions because they think they can use the instruments however they want. (For my part, I believe that a good background in West African music and dance makes one's "vocabulary" much larger - and that being deeply grounded in tradition enables one to be able to create something new.)

and - to be very honest - I doubt many white Americans have had African American teachers (in any subject, not just music and dance). I believe that the statements in the article re. some white students somehow thinking that they can understand and articulate things better than their black colleagues is - sadly - the truth, and indicative of much deeper problems in our society.

It is going to take time to work these things through - on a personal level, and on a national level. but I do hope that those who have a sincere desire to learn, and a real love for African music and dance, will be able to work together to celebrate it - and the cultures from which it has come - regardless of skin color, ethnic background, etc. (I will also say that I would feel very odd if i were in an all-white group of drummers and dancers, unless i lived in the Yukon! )

* Also - if anyone wishes to learn more about race and the US, please check out Senator Barack Obama's speech http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWe7wTVbLUU (given in Philadelphia 2 weeks ago). I am not posting this for political reasons, but because he is so eloquent about what we are facig, and about the need for understanding, compassion and change.

All the best to you!
e2c

[johnc]

since (correct me if im wrong) all of us are only seperated by the smallest of generational margins and givin that human origins are traced back to Tanzania (?)


we are all Black on the inside (dna)



now, where our minds come from......

[jteskie]

That article is crap - anyone can do anything - it's even more crap when it comes from non-africans (african-americans are AMERICANS and aren't more entitled to anything from Africa than any other non Africans are). I know twice as many white Americans (poor artists, not privileged) that have made the trip over to Africa to truly study the dance, drumming and culture, than I know black Americans that have. I once had a black guy who couldn't play even basic kuku tell me I could never teach him anything about drumming because I was white and he was as African as could be (he was black, born in Miami, and had never been to Africa, and couldn't really hold a rhythm).

I deal with this all the time as a white drummer. I dealt with it as a white basketball player. I dealt with it as a white guy dating an African girl.

The only thing I can't deal with is that these are 20 and 30 year olds acting like this. I can understand that there have been terrible atrocities committed on their ancestors and maybe even them, but two rights don't make a wrong, so saying that black people OWN this culture and these rhythms and that white people can't feel them like they do is nonsense.

It's called RACISM, and it usually comes from fear of the unknown. And as the playing fields even, or if you enter a non-white culture as a white person, you better get used to it. The good news is, eventually we'll all be one color, and then we'll only have to deal with classism. And then once we all make exactly the same amount of money we'll only have to deal with height and weightism (and looksism) until we all become like the big headed little bodied aliens in the movies.

I have one question - does "We Shall Overcome" work both ways? I think so. Love and let live.

[e2c]

how sad that you're passing judgment based on the 1st segment of the article alone - the 2nd part (including interviews with white drummers and dancers ) has just been published: http://www.culturecentral.org/site/the- ... rt-ii.html

Also, if you look around on the Culture Central site, you'll notice that they published a very nice feature on Like Water (drum and dance) - all of the members are white, or at least, that was the case when Culture Central published the piece....

[rachelnguyen]

After reading the first article, I had a conversation with my teacher about this issue. I think he was actually kind of surprised to hear that there were African Americans who felt that whites shouldn't play drums. To him, the drums are for anyone who wants to work hard enough to learn them. He seems happy to share his gift with anyone, regardless of color.

I know I have felt a little nervous about playing in a club with African drummers, but I work really hard at this and feel that if my teacher invites me to play with him, I have the right to be there. To me, that is the bottom line. If my teacher is willing to teach me and play with me, then I am going to do it.

At this point, I am so madly in love with drumming I really don't think I would be willing to give it up. What I would be willing to do, though, is to engage in the conversation. Listen. Respect. Hear what is being said without getting defensive. That I am willing to do with anyone who wants to talk about it with me.

[bubudi]

jteskie, examine closely what you have stated here.

black americans are descended from africans from the motherland who never had a choice about being removed from their culture to the americas. they had their culture vilified and banned, not to mention the human rights abuses that occurred and continue to occur today just because of their race. they have a right to identify with african culture and many have spent the last 20-30 years 'reclaiming' their culture. many black people have no idea of their exact african lineage and cannot even tell whether they came from central africa, west africa, etc. until fairly recently nothing much was known about malinke culture or many other cultures. in an effort to find their roots, many looked to learn whatever they could in libraries, dance and drum classes, etc. much of the information was about ancient egypt. it was common in the 60s for african americans to give an ancient egyptian name to their children, or some other african name. many changed their surnames to african names. even though they are physically far removed from the motherland and its customs and many of them have had the opportunity to travel and study the culture to the extent that many non-black exponents of african drum/dance have, they see the culture as being part of who they are. so your calling them non-africans is incorrect, and moreover, insulting to them. yes, there is a difference between africans raised in the motherland and those raised in america, but they are africans nonetheless.

should that give african americans a right to tell you to stay away from african culture? absolutely not. the experiences you shared about receiving racism from black people have happened to many non-blacks. it is safe to say that the majority of djembe players these days are either white or asian, and most of them are not serious players . some places don't have any black djembe players at all. many newcomers therefore miss out on the cultural side of learning the art, instead focusing on acquiring as many rhythms as possible and trying to develop some solos. it may be a while before they develop a level of respect to the culture in their study and practice that allows them to be accepted fully by africans, as well as african americans. that respect is displayed in one's level of patience and tolerance and other attitudes, knowledge of the culture, the rhythms and their background, and one's precision in playing the rhythms with their proper feeling. there is however blatant racism out there among certain african americans who wish to remain ignorant in an effort to blame all their insecurities on the historical oppressor of their people. that is something they will hopefully move on from one day. for the majority of black people who study and practice west african drumming/dance, while there may be some reservations, seem mainly to accept and in many cases welcome the participation of non-blacks who are respectful and apply themselves seriously.

[jteskie]

I did read the second article, but it doesn't excuse the statements made in the first.

two quotes from the article:

"RG: I am sadly, VERY disappointed at the state of affairs with the culture at the moment. NYC is almost embarrassing with all of the drama, white women with brown babies, black women with attitude or alpha/omega complexes and nobody really learning/teaching/ or interested in advancing the form."

This teacher apparently has a problem with white woman having brown babies - enough said.

and this one:

LG: My biggest frustration - white people, white people, white people who feel that they are validated in teaching, etc because they are married to an African and have children of mixed ancestry, as well as those Africans that condone this! It's irritating to not get the support that we should get as people of African descent doing this when these white women come up and get made luv!

This teacher has a problem with white people teaching after learning directly from their African spouse.

Those are the statements that set me off.


What I am doing is fast forwarding to the present, and saying that noone has the right to claim African Drum and Dance as their own, unless they are African, and pushing even further, unless they are from a Griot family that truly knows the history. Even then, these rhythms and dances are morphing inside of Africa and outside of Africa as time goes on, and there is a new collective occurring. Djembes and douns etc. sound better now because of non-african engineering and materials, and the lessons and videos on youtube and the internet which are helping this culture explode certainly aren't only African.

I feel the statements made in that article are as ignorant as me saying "black people shouldn't teach polka, but I can because my grandparents were Polish".

I guess it feels like a slap in the face if/when whoever can't see that non-blacks are accepting and loving the same cultural past they are reaching back to.

[Dugafola]

i think there may be a mixup jteskie...

there's 2 parts to the "new face of african dance" story...and then there's the "roundtable: african americans discuss teaching african dance."

[e2c]

Dugafola: yes, and there will be a 3d part to the article, coming out next month, in which African teachers' POVs are featured.

I'm sorry, jteskie, but I don't "get" the anger.

For my own part: I think listening with an open mind and heart is vital to this process. If we can truly hear where others are coming from, then perhaps we can speak with each other, rather than at each other here in the US.

From part 2 -

We pressed to see if the white dancers and drummers understood why they might be less than welcome in the community. For the most part they did. They understood this tension exists as a result of the horrific history of American slavery and on the seemingly intractable phenomenon of American racism. For the most part, we found that the female dancers seemed to have the most comprehensive understanding of why the tension may exist. One said, "black women have so few spaces where they can gather and be safe. I don't want to interfere with them feeling safe. " While the drummers appreciated the impact of the history of racism, they did appear a little less willing to accept that the history should constrain their opportunities in the culture.

[bubudi]

jteskie, duga is right. you were reading a different article. part 2 is actually doing justice to the points of view of non-black students and teachers of african drumming and dance.

you are angry at a couple of individual points of view expressed in the other article but they do not represent a collective view of african americans. that person's embarassment at all the dramas probably had less to do with white women having brown babies (after all, there are plenty of black women having pale skinned babies too...possibly less in the african drum/dance crowd though), and more to do with "nobody really learning/teaching or interested in advancing the form". by the way, "black women with attitude" were mentioned in the same sentence.

your comment before about african americans not being africans was much more offensive. it seems as though you were just reacting with anger at what you perceived as a threat to your right to continue doing what you love. there is no such threat. i suggest you read the second part, try to cool down and not come from anger. already anger has made you write an offensive comment, mix up two completely separate articles and overlook the intentions of a comment written in the other article.